Scott Belsky: Investor, Author & Founder of Behance

Sam Solomon: This is DNFM. I’m Sam Solomon.

DNFM features the latest stories in design and tech, brought to you by Designer News. This is episode three. Welcome back, everyone. My guest, Scott Belsky, will be on later in the show. He’s a general partner at Benchmark Capital. Many of you know him as the co founder and CEO of Behance.

We’ll get to hear a little bit about what initially drew him to the design world, what the early days of Behance were like. We’ll also talk a little bit about the interface layer and what he thinks the next tech giant looks like. Let’s see, what else do we have today? We’ll have a few quick announcements, followed by top designer news stories, and then of course my interview with Scott.

Let’s get started. Our sponsor for this episode is Craft by InVision. For those that don’t know, Craft is a free suite of plugins for Sketch and Photoshop that will turbocharge your workflow. Use the Data plugin to design with real data, even pull live web and JSON values into your design. There’s also a Library plugin that will allow you to create these beautiful style guides and share assets across your entire team.

And coming soon, you’ll be able to use the Prototype plugin to prototype your designs right inside of Sketch. InVision’s constantly updating craft and loves getting feedback from designers like you. So snag the plugins at invisionapp. com slash craft and let them know what you think. We have a few quick announcements.

The first is DN Projects. We’ll be partnering with CRU to connect members of the Designer News community with design and development projects. You can either apply to work on listed projects, or submit your own project to CRU’s vetted network. We also have a few upcoming meetups. The Designer News Seattle meetup will happen on August 25th.

It’ll be located in the Holyoke WeWork office. There’s also the Toronto Meetup on September 15th, and that will be hosted at Shopify. I’ve said this before, but DnMeetups are a fantastic way to meet other designers in the community. If you’re either in Seattle or Toronto, I’d highly encourage you to check those out.

And now for Top Stories. In this segment, we’ll take a look at some of the most discussed items on Designer News over the last week or so. First up is a self post by Sam Zeller titled, I decided to give away my photos for free, even for commercial use. So Sam started uploading some of his photos to Unsplash about two years ago.

Today, those photos have about 63 million views and have gotten more than half a million downloads. Apple even used one of his photos on the overview page for the iPad Pro, which I think is pretty cool. Now Sam is opening up his entire photography archive for free. It’s free under a Creative Commons zero license, which means you can use his photos for anything.

If you wanted to print his photos and hang them on your wall, fine. If you want to use his photos to advertise your product, that’s fine. If you want to use his photos to advertise your product without attributing him, that’s also fine. Essentially, the only thing you can’t do under a CC0 license is claim that you are the original creator.

So people were telling him that he was devaluing his work and the work of other photographers in the industry at large, all by giving away his work for free. Here’s the thing though, because he gave away those photos for free, Sam is now getting contacted by big clients like UBS, and I’m guessing he’s getting much better paychecks for those gigs.

So, should more people be giving away their work for free? Be it photographers, designers, or writers, here’s what I think. When markets are flooded with a significant amount of work that is free, in this case photography, the people that are selling similar work will now lose out. That’s just how markets work.

However, those that are really good, and by really good I mean the top one percent of those photographers, Those people get noticed by agencies and large companies with very specific photography needs. Those most talented photographers will also get paid much, much better. Everyone else is just going to have a difficult time selling their work.

If you’re interested in Unsplash or how it became the site for CC0 Photography, I’d recommend 1 of DNFM, where I had Unsplash founder Mikhail Cho join me. Next up is a story about Airbnb and the new internal design team they’ve launched named Samara. According to Airbnb, Samara is about generating new ideas and building products that serve the Airbnb community.

This new services design team kicked off their first project, the Yoshino Cedar House in the rural village of Yoshino, Japan. As pointed out by Vincent Jeffrey in the DN comments, Airbnb acquired Lopka, which is a Russian design studio, last year. Since Samara is the name of a Russian city, perhaps it’s the same team.

To me, this seems like a labs division within Airbnb. It’s a way for them to experiment with new ideas that might uncover larger opportunities for the company in the future. However, I do find this project, this Yoshino Cedar House, Incredibly interesting. It will have a single kitchen, a communal dining table, a publicly available living room, it will have several individual bedrooms, and in many ways, to me it seems like An inn or a bed and breakfast.

Perhaps Airbnb is exploring moving downstream into the hotel business. I’m not quite so sure that that’s the case. When researching about Samara and this project, I did find a report on the information saying that Airbnb is trying to find ways to convince home builders to create extra rooms to be rented out.

In the long run, that makes sense for their business model. So perhaps that’s what’s happening here. And our final top story today is of course Instagram stories. Yes, you guys knew that was coming, didn’t you? Instagram released a new feature called Stories. You might be familiar with it as it mimics the Snapchat feature of the same name.

The community had a lot of mixed feelings about this, this feature launch. A lot of you said that it was outright plagiarism. Is the feature nearly identical? Yeah, it is. Is there value in the unrefined fleeting nature of Snapchat stories? Of course. Does implementing a feature like Stories conflict with Instagram’s brand of carefully selected photos?

Sure. But was this a smart move on Instagram’s part? Absolutely. This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think it was a smart decision from Instagram. It’s a gamble, but the company thinks that These Snapchat esque features are a way to either increase users, usage, or revenue. Snapchat will now have pressure to improve its product, just like Instagram had pressure to improve theirs.

In the long run, I think this is better for consumers, but we’ll just have to wait and see. And now for our interview. This is the section of the show where I sit down with people in the design and tech world and talk to them about what’s happening and how they got to where they are. As I mentioned earlier in the show, my guest today is Scott Belsky.

He’s an entrepreneur, investor, and general partner at Benchmark Capital. Previously, he served as Adobe’s vice president of products. And of course, you know, he founded Behance in 2006, where he served as CEO until Adobe acquired them in 2012. He’s also the author of international bestselling book, Making Ideas Happen.

Scott, welcome to the show.

Scott Belsky: Thanks, Sam. Happy to be here. Scott, I’m

Sam Solomon: curious. You’ve obviously done a ton of work in the design world, but I’m curious what initially drew you to design. Well, in

Scott Belsky: some ways, it was, uh, a frustration. You know, and it wasn’t just with design, it was with the creative industry as a whole.

That, you know, these are the people who make life interesting. These are the people that Uh, whose talent compels us to take action on things around us to understand events as they happened and navigate our way through new products, new experiences. Yet this is one of the most disorganized communities on the planet, and it was very frustrating to me that there was no attribution in the creative world.

There was very little in terms of credit around who did what. Um, there were a lot of careers that were never optimized in the sense of people doing the best work of their lives and There was very little meritocracy in terms of people getting the opportunity that they deserve. Uh, and a lot of what served the creative world was all about creativity and inspiration.

And I felt like the creative world needs, doesn’t need more creativity. They need more organization and execution and management practices and, and, uh, kind of everything else required to, to make ideas see the light of day. So I just found that very interesting. And, uh, I had a little design background in the sense that in college, I studied both business and design and, um, but I really was coming from the business angle in terms of the things I was doing after college and decided to bring a team together to help organize the creative world.

And when I told people that people were like, good luck with that and

Sam Solomon: at that time you were working at Goldman Sachs,

Scott Belsky: right? Oh, goodness of all places.

Sam Solomon: What, what was the, I guess, what was the moment when you decided, I don’t want to do this anymore. I want to set out on

Scott Belsky: my own. Probably right after I started, but, um, but I, you know, I had my, my first job there was a monotonous finance job, but I left that pretty quickly.

The second job that I had there was, uh, more interesting. It was helping, um, helping the firm with succession planning and leadership development and thinking about how. Just organizational improvement. We called it like how the, how things be better structured. And we did this work not only for the firm, but also for key clients.

And that experience was really great. It helped me understand how high performing teams function. It helped me understand kind of the power that a leader has and setting culture and changing how people work. And it gave me a sense of the type of content that needed to be accessible to the creative world.

And so it was a good bridge to what I did next, which was start, uh, the founding of Behance.

Sam Solomon: And about that same time you enrolled in Harvard to get your MBA,

Scott Belsky: right? Yeah, simultaneously I was. Um, I didn’t really wasn’t completely sold in the business school idea and actually didn’t apply anywhere else.

But there’s this woman named Teresa Mable, who’s a creativity and business researcher at Harvard, and I specifically wanted to work with her. I figured that if I needed someone to hold me accountable and expose me to a lot of the research side of this problem, it would be someone like her. And so that was what kind of drew me to.

To get a traditional business education. And I got to tell you, I was probably the worst student in my entire class. It was a time where there weren’t many people starting companies. This is like 2006, 2007. And, um, and I remember. The career services office calling me, asking me if I was sick because I hadn’t dropped a resume.

Um, I just didn’t belong there. I should have just kind of probably dropped, I’m sure the PR value of dropping out of Harvard business school is better than graduating. Um, nevertheless, I, uh, I stuck with it. The team was in New York and actually started working as soon as I started business school. So I was basically living in New York and.

Trying to stay afloat in business school on the side. So if

Sam Solomon: we hopped in the time machine and went back in time and you had just been accepted to Harvard again, you wouldn’t

Scott Belsky: go? Um, probably not. I mean, if I knew how it would turn out, probably not. If I were to be honest, I was probably just hedging myself.

You know, I was building this business that. Was bootstrapped and remember behance was bootstrapped for 5 years after it’s founding too. So there was always a side of me that said, gosh, I might have to get a real job someday and it wouldn’t help to wouldn’t hurt to have an MBA if I have to do that. So I think it was probably out of fear that I that I stuck with it, even though I knew that.

I needed to be focused on this business to make it work. You said

Sam Solomon: that Behance was bootstrapped. I’m curious, you know, why for the first five years or so you guys decided not to raise

Scott Belsky: capital? I think part of it was developing the identity of this business. We had this Belief that we could be mission centric, all about organizing the creative world, but mission, but medium agnostic, meaning that we’ll do it through any medium possible.

And we actually launched our business with a series of paper products that are still sold to this day. They’re called action pads and action books. And it was this methodology of, uh, uh, for, for taking notes and staying productive. And it was a design set of products that helped creatives be more organized.

Um, we had a blog, we had a conference, you know, that’s now become this 99U conference, which is an annual kick in the ass for creatives to be more productive, basically. And the network was really a long term vision that didn’t materialize for a year or so after we launched, started the business. So we, we wanted to bootstrap the business in part because we could, we had these other products that were being sold and generating real revenue.

And, uh, and I also wanted to have the slow bay, you know, when you build a company that’s venture backed, you have to be super focused, you have to have one product that is going to make the difference. Whereas I wanted to build a brand that I felt had the credibility and the lasting power to mean something and that required us to do things a little differently.

One of the

Sam Solomon: things that I think is very interesting about your story is early on you guys had all of these products. You guys had The conference, and you had this blog, and you had all of these individual paper products. How did, how’d you guys figure out what you were going to build though? Uh, how did you measure those things?

Scott Belsky: Well, the true story is we were trying many different things. Some of these things we were continuing because they generated revenue, um, and helped define the brand, um, even though they weren’t our be all end all business. And we knew that some things we had to kill over time. We had a, uh, we had a task management product called action method, which was popular in the design community.

But it wasn’t going to break out and I realized pretty quickly that the productivity business isn’t a winner take all business. Everyone has their own way of being productive and there always are going to be many different tools out there. There’s always going to be a lot of churn because people love adopting a new productivity tool.

It makes them, it’s like spring cleaning. It just makes you feel more productive, um, to start using something new. So there were a lot of lessons learned there and we threw a bunch of things at the wall that all had some strategic value. We didn’t know which one was going to be the thing that really helped us add the most value to the world.

It became very clear about two, two and a half years into this, that behance the network was going to be the thing that made the biggest difference. And, um, and cause that just kept started growing. And, you know, this is a time when designers would spend so much time building a portfolio website on their own domain name that no one would go to other than the people who knew them.

It’s not like typing in graphic designer Brooklyn would like yield people’s, you know, portfolios. Um, and, uh, and the question to them was, well, why would you spend so much time on a portfolio website? That’s already preaching to the choir. Wouldn’t you want to showcase your work in a network? That yields the majority of traffic from people who don’t know you and is a great discovery medium.

Wouldn’t you want to spend your time building portfolio in a connected. environment rather than an isolated static website. And so that was kind of the insight that I think really made Behance take off. I’d like to

Sam Solomon: take a second and talk to you a bit about your thesis on the interface layer. Um, I’d like to read something from your 2014 essay about the topic.

The era ahead is all about simplification and aggregation. Atomization went too far, and now the pendulum is swinging back in the direction. Of one stop solutions for integrated services. Could you take a moment and expound a little bit upon that go into a little bit of detail and kind of what do you, what’s your vision for these one stop solutions for integrated services?

The idea

Scott Belsky: there is that, um, that the, you know, the atomization happened because people wanted very specialized and customized ways of doing things. And the. The app, uh, OS, you know, the OS, the app centric way of using our mobile devices and even our desktop products, you know, had the world go that direction.

But in truth, you know, our life is, is a series of connected moments and actions. Everything is connected. Um, when things become more automated based on our habits and data and our routines, you want to have a more connected experience. Um, and everything that is disconnected is friction. Jumping from one thing to the other, having to make those decisions, having to restart where you, where you left off.

Uh, I mean, you just think about what it’s like to kind of cut and paste between applications and stuff, you know, just give you a sense of what I mean by friction. And, uh, and so you’re starting to see the aggregation of services, um, and, you know, the classic example is being able to order an Uber from within another product, you know, and I was just actually meeting with a team today that is helping people find urgent care, um, when they need it.

And, you know, as soon as you find a clinic or a place. It’s where you can get urgent care. What do you need to do? You need to get there, you know, and you need to get there as fast as possible. And what better product is there than Uber to help you do that? And, um, and so that’s an example where maybe that should be integrated into the experience.

Why should the customer have to go anywhere? And, uh, but I don’t think this has happened yet. To be clear, I actually think that we’re still live living in an atomized world. We’re still jumping to customized environments and, and it’s also an OSS level problem. It’s not just the, the products themselves. I think the operating systems that we use aren’t conducive for this vision where you’ll wake up in the morning and you’ll just, with one interface, basically plan your day and everything will be proposed to you as defaults based on what you’re probably gonna do.

And you can, you can edit it, but you don’t have to. Right. And I think that’s really where we’re gonna end up.

Sam Solomon: Well, it’s, it’s interesting. So after going through the interview, the, or going through this essay, the, one of the first things I thought of was like, we chat in China or a line in Korea. Um, basically you can make payments and hail rides, and they’re all are just kind of like layers within, uh, this chat application, uh, so it’s

Scott Belsky: because maybe it’s because China was able to watch us make the app centric world first and see what that was and sort of then evolve.

If you think about it, WeChat is an operating system, you know, it’s a modern day advanced operating system that connects all of these things with this very intuitive human interface of chat. And, uh, and China is way beyond us when it comes to this sort of interface layer vision. I think, what

Sam Solomon: does the interface layer mean for brands?

So when you’re choosing things like Uber versus Lyft or uh, UPS versus FedEx, a lot of those services are, are kind of invisible and as long as they, you know, serve that same, the they serve the same function, uh, you’re not as sensitive to it. You know with things like pepsi or coke people absolutely are going to have an

Scott Belsky: opinion well it’s a it’s the biggest threat to brands um and especially brands that have api’s and.

Have simple solutions whether it be payments or deliveries or driving or whatever and these are things that could be integrated other experiences very easily and so you’ll either either find friends trying to really distinguish their service. And, um, and really enforce the notion of brand so that it can kind of shine through.

The interface brands may have to send me pay interfaces to be present and be the first option presented to users or the default option. There will someday I think be these major fights to be the default, you know, amongst all these brands that provide products and services to us because we’re going to stop caring, we’re just going to.

Start preferring to live within specific interfaces and we’re going to be more agnostic than we realize to the company that gives us Certain products or which soda we drink or whatever. We’re just going to want to have it all seamless And I think there’s there’s there’s an there’s some exciting stuff ahead in that arena I’d like

Sam Solomon: to switch gears here for a second and read a quote from your book making ideas happen Someone with average creativity, but stellar organizational skills will make a greater impact than the disorganized creative genius among us.

I think, you know, a lot of us probably know, uh, someone who is a disorganized creative genius. Um, but for those of us that’s not them, what types of organizational skills Um, can help make kind of regular designers like me stellar.

Scott Belsky: Well, first of all, it’s a controversial statement, right? It’s almost suggesting that we should compromise some of our creativity.

In exchange for more organization around the ideas that we’ve already got. And there are many famous examples of people who’ve done this to an extreme and been extraordinarily successful. People like Thomas Kincaid with a gallery in every resort town in America, or James Patterson, who proclaims to write seven novels at once.

I mean, there’s lots of examples of this, but I don’t think we have to be that extreme, but what I mean by the, you know, this notion of the creative compromise is it’s about really spending time on how you organize rather than just spending time create. Um, is one example AB testing the way that you operate on a daily basis.

Do you have a meeting every Tuesday morning with your team just because it’s Tuesday? Should you try to not have that meeting for three weeks and instead make it some sort of exchange on slack or something else and then determine whether you’re going to adopt that change or revert back to the previous version and try another edit to the way that you work.

Some of the most productive creative individuals and teams I’ve met, um, over the years actually you. Spend time optimizing how they work, not just doing their work. And so that’s one example. And, you know, the reason why that could potentially be a compromise on creativity is because you’re literally spending less time brainstorming and creating your, you’re actually auditing and optimizing the way that you work.

I think it’s also about how you leverage your community. You know, do you pace yourself with others? Do you get feedback? These are uncomfortable things that take energy. Um, and, uh, and also in terms of, do you invest in how your team is led in your own leadership capability? These are all things that I think have as much, if not more impact on the, on the success of ideas.

Then the quality of the ideas

Sam Solomon: themselves to me. I get the sense that you’re someone who’s very creative, but also very productive So what are some of these things that you’ve done? That have improved the way you

Scott Belsky: work all of these things I am very into a highly communicative and feedback rich environment where I’m always asking people what I could be doing better and differently With the hands, I was always experimenting with how we worked Always trying new ways of showcasing a business plan so people could resonate with it, trying new ways of managing meetings or not having meetings at all, running only standing meetings where people have to stand.

Until their knees get weak and uncomfortable and, you know, people want to break, um, and, uh, and even like the, you know, the original designs for the productivity products in the early days of the hands, we’re all an experiment on how we could be more organized. So, um, so I like to consider myself a laboratory of all of the stuff that I’m serving and.

Encourage my team to participate. So Adobe acquired

Sam Solomon: Behance in 2012 and you stayed with Behance But you also started working with some other projects and and products within Adobe Can you tell us a little bit about those?

Scott Belsky: A few things. I mean aside from Continuing to run and scale Behance, you know build that leadership team further Uh, I took on a new, uh, new responsibility and challenge about nine months into my time at Adobe, and I was there for a little over three years.

Um, and this was, uh, the mandate was to bring creativity to mobile, bring creative, professional creativity to mobile. At the time, Adobe had a number of different products on mobile that were all branded by the desktop brands like Photoshop. None of which were connected to each other or to the desktop products, nor had any login or cloud capabilities and were not professional at all.

They were a joke. And so, um, we killed these products. We built an SDK that, uh, from, so other, our own teams, but also other teams, third party teams could build tools on top of the core Adobe technology that was the same technology that the desktop tools used. And, uh, and then we launched this connected suite of creative apps that all work together.

They were all cloud enabled and connected to your Creative Cloud account. All of the content you made on mobile could work on desktop. And a lot of them do capture things in the real world, whether it be patterns or colors or shapes into vectors. We really tried to find, like, real use cases. For creatives to be able to work beyond their desktop, you know, get out of their desk and get into the world and capture wherever creativity strikes.

And so it’s just a great opportunity to build something from the ground up, leverage the behemoth of Adobe to usher in professional creativity to the mobile world. And, uh, the mobile products became one of the number one drivers of new people into the free creative cloud environment and really introduced a lot of people into that ecosystem.

And I learned a ton, you know, building these teams and driving that. So there was that there was some stuff work I did with the creative cloud services and marketplace, the acquisition of this company called Fotolia that was doing stock photography and bringing kind of integrating some of this stuff, which I felt Adobe had a lot of work to do.

So it was a great experience. And I got to learn also how companies are acquired and integrated and that kind of thing, but I was itching to get back into the world of working with early stage product teams. Um, as an investor, but also an advisor and, and, uh, and a co founder, you know, helping get some new things off the ground.

There’s one company that I actually, um, is still kind of, uh, in its, in its pre launch mode, but I’ve, that I’ve helped co found that I’m excited about as well in recent months. Oh, is there anything that you can tell us about? Well, you know, nothing, nothing yet without me getting in too much trouble. But the one thing I would say is it’s a company that also is all about empowering.

Professionals who are very talented and don’t want to be commoditized in this increasingly on demand, commoditizing world where you can get this or that for on demand and, you know, and, and, and, and these people, um, actually thrive on relationships, you know, they, they want to build and be. You know, again, have meritocracy be the wind at their backs and their careers.

So it’s, it’s, it’s exploring that space and it’s, but it’s still early. But, uh, believe me, when, when, when the team is ready to share, I, I will be the first person to talk about it. That’s,

Sam Solomon: I think that’s very exciting. Cause I was actually going to ask you if you had any intention on getting back into the startup game anytime soon, but I guess that answers my question.

Well, I won’t push you too hard, but on the topic of, um, you know, people who don’t want to be commoditized, you know, this is DNFM, the audience is designers. What are things that designers can do to, to prevent their work from becoming a commodity?

Scott Belsky: Yeah, I think that, uh, I think it’s about building your brand, uh, making sure that you get attribution for the work that you’ve done.

It’s also about what you don’t do. Uh, and, and, and, you know, folks listening to, to this recording, you know, well, if you’re designers, you’ve all been poached or tried to be poached by these spec contests and these. You know, crowdsourcing type of plays that are purely about commoditizing creative talent and taking advantage of people by trying to get them to do free work.

So a big part of this is to not do things that cheapen your labor and encourage you to do stuff that’s not the best. Because the weird thing about the world we live in these days is that everything you do sort of sets your brand. So why would you ever participate in something that’s not your best foot forward?

That’s just going to reflect badly on you. I’m really, you know, I’m against the whole kind of crowdsourcing spec contest movement. Um, and uh, which, you know, I’m sure we all are, but unfortunately the rest of the world doesn’t know better. So, you know, as part of our responsibility to not engage in it. Sure.

Sure. Well,

Sam Solomon: you’re a general partner at benchmark capital. I’ve got a few questions that kind of pertain to investing designer fund. Um, there’s a few of these funds out there that. Uh, specifically go after either companies that were founded by designers or, or very design focused. Uh, I’m curious what your opinion of those funds are.

Scott Belsky: I’m a big fan. Uh, I, I think one of the things we’re gonna see And we’re already seeing, but more so in the coming years is design founded companies, because if the interface layer is a, is a decent thesis for the future, then that means that some of the greatest companies will compete at the interface and they will be design driven.

That would be their competitive advantage. The full stack of technology is basically being commoditized at this point. There’s so much that you can get off of GitHub and. Get off, get from AWS and all these other services for like nine bucks a month or whatever, but what, but what, what really is a competitive advantage, of course, is the design itself.

And therefore a lot of founders will, you know, the most equipped and positioned founders, best positioned founders will be designers. Which means that there needs to be venture sources out there that, um, that have the designer in mind that know how to partner with and serve designers and designer fund is a great example of a resource rich fund that is trying to, uh, compete in that space.

And obviously me being an investor, like that’s one of the things I try to do is find and support great designers out there in the way that I know they need it. Um, and I think you’ll see more firms, uh, build, build design capacity, uh, from the investor, uh, investors that work there.

Sam Solomon: Well, another question I have along those lines has to do with the acquisition of agencies and these smaller design firms and studios.

Uh, in the last year or two, we’ve seen, uh, I think it’s, it’s kind of odd. A lot of banks have taken in design firms, obviously Facebook took in Tehan and lax. Uh, what do you make of that trend? Is that something that’s going to continue? Uh, what does that mean for the agency

Scott Belsky: world? Well, I think so. It’s, it’s really just an another version of acqui hires of talent.

And the fact that acqui hires are not only for engineering talent now, but are also for designing designer talent makes complete sense. And I understand a lot of people in agencies who are tired of having to think about many, many clients. And it’s this transactional way and would prefer to just focus on one client and, uh, and also feel like they should have a seat at the table.

You know, one of the things that is required for a company to be design driven is for designers to be running the company. And, uh, and you can’t do that if your design talent is always a third party team. I mean, it works sometimes, but those are the exceptions to the rule. So it makes sense to bring designers in house, empower them to really lead product and lead the vision.

Yeah, I get that.

Sam Solomon: Scott, I think that’s about all the questions I have for you. I appreciate you taking time to join me today and. Good luck with your new venture.

Scott Belsky: Thanks, Sam. Thanks for having me.

Sam Solomon: And that’s going to be it for Episode 3. If you enjoyed the show, I’d encourage you to subscribe. We’re on iTunes and SoundCloud. Of course, you can always listen on the web at designernews. co. slash podcast. If you’ve got ideas for making this podcast better. Please reach out to us on Twitter at designernewsbot or to me personally at Samuel R.

Solomon. We’ll be posting this on Designer News, so the comment section works just as well. If you’re interested in supporting DNFM, please get in touch with us. We’d love to talk. Once again, my guest is Benchmark Capital partner Scott Belsky. I’m Sam Solomon, and this is DNFM.

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